How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer!


Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The NIV translates this verse a little differently:

“How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR.

This really disturbed a gentleman in an online discussion forum several years ago. He was a huge advocate for the KJV, not just any KJV, but the 1611 KJV. His claim was that the 1611 KJV is the only “true word of God”.

His protest was that the NIV change “Lucifer” to “MORNING STAR” which is, of course, a reference to “Jesus Christ” in Rev 22:16:

Rev 22:16  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

This he saw as blasphemy, a blatant perversion of the text. I am not sure why he didn’t have a problem with the following statement: “… son of the morning”, which is also found in the 1611 KJV, but he didn’t seem to be bothered by that.

I think his biggest problem is a common problem. Most believers have been taught to believe that this reference to “Lucifer” is a reference to Satan. And we have been taught to believe that Satan is God’s arch enemy, a fallen angel, and the king of hell.

But have we been taught correctly?

I have come to see “Satan” very differently over the last several years. I address that is some of my older studies where I look at the connections that I see in scripture concerning “the serpent” (that is satan, the devil), the “tongue” ((of the)) “wicked” (who have THEIR PART in the lake of fire which is THE SECOND DEATH) and the “carnal mind” and that which has “the power of death”.

I find it all very fascinating!! And while I might still see satan, the devil, the serpent, that old dragon as “a fallen angel”, it’s not the type of “fallen angel” most people are thinking of.

You can read my studies on it elsewhere, but the following is the reply of a good friend of mine made to this complaint about the NIV. I hope it blesses you as much as it has blessed me… back then and again now as I dig through the dust and pull out some of these old studies and posts that I have saved over the years.

Lucifer = “light-bearer” (in relation to the King of Babylon)

Ever notice Jesus was to “look upon” as TWO STONES and that “This child” IS SET for THE FALL (FIRST) and THE RISING (((AGAIN))) of many in Israel?

He was to look upon as unto (two stones) the Jasper and the sardius

1) a sardius, a precious stone of which there are two types, the former is called a carnelian (because flesh coloured) and the latter a sard

How thou hast FALLEN (in relation to the former)

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The LIGHT IN THEM was DARKNESS (a paradox)… IF the light that is in you be darkness which shows exactly that (in accord with Paul) which said he was a Jew (after THE FLESH) which is OUTWARD (verses INWARD)

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In Paul is a “pattern” of the longsuffering of God (who walked in darkness/ ignorance) of God

As Paul considered himself a “light bearer” but…

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

After He FELL to the earth (how thou art FALLEN) the light he thought he had was nothing in comparison (he found himself persecuting the Lord he thought he was doing service for)

Pride is “the devils condemnation” and pride cometh BEFORE a FALL (Just as with Nebby) and God was ABLE to HUMBLE HIM and restore him just the same.

Same concept….

Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Just like here (the same)

Dan 4:27 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

He extols him on his ways (which are judgment) which was exactly what is shown in Paul

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

So the two stones even speak of those in Him (at least HID in Him) even as those which SAY they are JEWS but DO LIE (even as Paul spoke of MY LIE) and Jesus made them of the Synagogue OF SATAN (whose light is darkness) and it speaks OF THEIR FALL (blindness IN PART) and their RISING AGAIN (and both are IN Christ) in whom they are CONCLUDED even as He is to look upon as TWO STONE (one after the flesh) through which Christ after the flesh came) and one after the Spirit (the Jasper) which is the first foundation stone (the BUILDING OF the wall of it) and He that SAT and that to which HER light was LIKENED TO (which she had) which is the newest of stones (not after the flesh) but after the Spirit.

These things I see summed up in Him and shown throughout scripture in various ways after their similitudes.

Another follow-on reply:

Here’s morning stars (plural)

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Then here… compare

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts

They which draw others after themselves (same concept… he draweth a third of the stars out of heaven)

Then compare…

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.

You can tell why this person is one of favorite study partners. We take an almost identical approach to the scriptures in the way we study them. What a blessing to find someone else who “speaks the same language” (so to speak).

All Blessings in Christ, as always!



About Christine

My name is Christine and since my favorite past-time, the one that I find the most fulfilling, is studying the scriptures and seeking to know and understand "the deep things of God", I have created this blog as a place to not only post my own bible studies but as a way to connect with others who are are also seeking the Lord and the Truth. I've posted some of my studies on other websites and haven't yet decided if I will post them here, as well, or if I will just post future blogs/studies here. We'll see. Thanks for stopping by and please do so again... maybe after I get something posted. :) ALL BLESSINGS IN CHRIST!!
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18 Responses to How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer!

  1. Alex Jones says:

    In getting to the truth of what a text says it is good to go to the original version and language it was written in, since translated versions tend to be full of error. In the Hebrew Lucifer is “shining one, son of the dawn” which is different to the Latin “light bearer.” The translator of Hebrew to Latin called Jerome was influenced by a Greek word for the Morning Star (Venus.)

    It is commonly understood that the passage referring to Lucifer in Isa 14:12 in the context it is found is a taunt against Nebuchadnezzar II who also appears elsewhere in the Bible for his belief in being greater than the Hebrew god.

    Amongst many Satanists and Luciferians they consider Satan and Lucifer to be different archetypes. A recent idea amongst Satanists is that Satan represents chaos, strife and destruction, whilst Lucifer represents enlightenment and growth, two sides of the same coin.

  2. Bro Snowde says:

    As have read these post…enlightened u r however, one point must be mentioned and that is Romans 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew then the gentile.

    All that is to say: we must rightly divide the scriptures. What is written to the Jews must be referred to the Jews ie their culture and geography and archeology history. Then what is written to the gentiles let us understand what Apostle Paul has written to us, this also includes believing Jews during the aion (age).

    KEY is this:

    OUR LORDS,Peter, James & Johns evangel is the same to the Jewish nation and that of earthly promise(s). While Paul’s evangel is to gentiles and believing Jews towards a celestial calling and promise.

  3. Ken Sheck says:

    Hello Christine. Yes, the scripture says that God will destroy all things that defile the temple, but will not destroy the temple. {our body}. Just as Jesus said he comes to destroy “him” that has the power of death, that is “the devil”. Heb. 2:14.

    Same thing, destroy sin that causes death and to destroy that which defiles the temple of God, our body. It is “sin”, or all ungodliness that is IN the temple. That is, the Spirit of man that does not know the things of the spirit of God, per 1 Cor. 2.

    It is said in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 – 4 that we can not be gathered unto the DAY {light} of Christ UNTIL the man of sin is seen to be sitting in the temple {our body} showing or causing us to believe that some of “his” doctrines are in us and being believed by us as being God’s ways.

    It also says that it is out of the heart of man that come the things that defile the man, or temple of God. So they are already IN man as “sin in the flesh or body:, It is the spirit of natural man that actually defiles the temple of God we are to become.

    Natural Adam’s naturally believed doctrines of wrath and destruction and anger etc. are the character of only the “man of sin”, natural Adam. Natural Adam, or that which is to become the “old man”, is also known as the Spirit of man that does not know the things of the Spirit of God because “he” is not the Spirit of God.

    Only the Spirit of GOD does or can know the things of the Spirit of God properly. So, we must become the Spirit of God our selves as who we are in our body, before we can know the things of the Spirit of God, judge ourselves by the Spirit of God in us, and become Jesus Christ the Son of God that is “one spirit” with God. One Spirit, ONE mind, and One united people as one body because of being exactly the same person within each body {temple of God}.

    As Jesus said in John 8:44 etc, to the Jewish believers who believe in violence as a method of God’s judgment, they were the children of the devil, or sin. But they were , as we are, also understood as being children of the flesh. Natural Israel and the Old Testament witness is of the spirit of man that does not know the things of the Spirit of GOD. We all are this spirit at our natural physical birth. There is leaven in us at birth, and that leaven is “darkness” or “ignorance”.
    Eph_4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is IN them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    As we can recall, Adam and Eve are told to us as both or each of them as being blind We ssee that after doing wrong in the story by the lusts of the flesh {serpent, law of sin in their members}, their eyes were opened. If they had their eyes opened, spiritually speaking, then it was the eyes of their “heart” or the eyes of their understanding that “saw”. Before this their understanding of evil was “blind” . This means they were “ignorant” about the truth of the way of God which is LIFE. That garden story is a parable only.regarding an entire time of man’s history in the creation to this day. The spirit of man is the woman that is being made while the man she is made “out of” is sleeping. That is when we are “dead” in Christ. The person we are to be when we are “perfected or completed” is Jesus Christ.

    When the day of Christ and the truth that we are all predestined to become the mature Jesus as the Son of God in the world is not known or believed by us, the promise of being Jesus is SLEEPING or “dormant” in us. When we begin to believe and see the truth of this being accomplished in us, we are “becoming awakened”.

    Pro_6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?

    Gen_28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I KNEW IT NOT.
    As Romans says, what is the receiving of Israel {Jacob}, but the time of life FROM THE DEAD. {the resurrection time, the DAY of the light of Christ “shining WITHIN US and out of OUR darkness more and more brightly} There is Messianic Judaism in the world now, and Israel is back in their land. Amos 9.

    Amos 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
    Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall NO MORE be pulled up out of :

    Rom_11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but LIFE from the dead?

    The knowledge of that, as it comes to us as it is now today, is the awakening of “that man” we are all going to be, Jesus Christ the son of God in truth. The Morning Star can be understood as some who are now receive the light of the “coming sun \ son” before all of the earth sees it. As in Venus is called the morning star in earthy terms because the light of the natural Sun shines to and upon it before the same source of light shines and enlightens the earth on the dark side.

    The scripture says the light shines OUT of darkness, not “into” darkness. Why? Because the light is already there. As in the “tree of both good AND evil”. Jesus said there is none good but one, and that is God. Well then, the good in the tree of good and evil is the goodness of God, but the evil is the evil, the law of sin in the flesh. That law of sin in the flesh, the lusts of the flesh, are what deceive us all about who God is and what God is truly like. The good IS of God.

    Gal. 5 tells us that the lusts of the flesh desire AGAINST the lusts or desire of THE SPIRIT and that these two are contrary to one another. They are “adversarial” or adversaries to one another. It is therefore in the spirit of man at birth that the lusts of the flesh become active as the adversary to the goodness of God in us. The lusts of the flesh becomes deception and the deceiver in us in regard to the goodness that is of God alone.

    The wrath of God, as it is called in scripture at times, is really sin in the world and is the source of that which scripture calls “our own ways upon us” when we err. Simply put, the man of sin is the “baby” or “immature” Jesus. The natural Adam possessed by and ruled by the carnal mind and nature are “adversaries” to the mind and Spirit of God. When God begins to awaken “the sleeping man” in us, Jesus the Christ of God, we enter into the time and the ability of dividing the wheat from the tares, just as Jesus did as an adult witness of the Father in Israel roughly twenty centuries ago.

    But the mature or perfected Jesus we are to follow and become RECONCILES the two adversaries to God by keeping the lusts of the flesh in the order and purpose God has for them. In that reconciliation the two, the flesh and the Spirit of God, become one New Man. That man is Jesus Christ the son of God that is as God is in Spirit and mind. Peace and Holiness, without which no man shall see {KNOW} God as THE Father. Only the Spirit of God knows the things of the Spirit of God. It follows then, as said above, that we must BE the Spirit of God in order to know God properly as our father. We are to be perfected of completed and be one with God as our father in us, all while still in our present flesh body. Just as Jesus did.

    Jesus said, follow me. He did not say it was a free ride as many well meaning pastors and teachers have taught and believed in times past. But we are also assured it is possible for us to actually do so, and follow Christ all the way to becoming one with the father our selves Each to fulfill the scripture that speaks of God being all in all. In the picture of God in heaven and Jesus sitting at his right hand, it says that Jesus REMAINS sitting there UNTIL ALL things are put UNDER HIM.
    This is to be understood as happening in each one of us individually, as all things contrary to the Spirit of God in us are brought into subjection to Jesus’ witness IN US. We all are to spiritually mature onward to the fullness of Jesus Christ in the world. This will continue to become collectively accomplished IN all for all, world without end. {forever after in the whole creation}

    Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    Eph_1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Eph_3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    Col_1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
    Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    Truly, it is the time to understand and receive that God has NOT given us the spirit to be afraid any more. Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, *Father*.

    Rom_14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

    Rom_14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all “STAND” before the judgment seat of Christ.
    1Co_15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

    Please recall, that we too are to “RECONCILE” the lusts of the flesh and the Spirit of God to each other in each one of us, as Jesus did, still does. We are to reconcile our body and witness of Christ in us to “the way to the truth about as THE LIFE we are to have IN US in this world at maturity”. Eternal life, as in life only always.

    Jdg_18:9 And they said, Arise, that we may go up against them: for we have seen the land, and, behold, it is VERY good: and are ye still? be not slothful to go, and to enter to possess the land.
    {our bodies}.
    Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken YOUR MORTAL BODIES {plural} by his Spirit that dwelleth IN you. {From within our body, by the LIFE within it}

    Gen_1:31 And God saw EVERY THING that he had made, and, behold, it was VERY GOOD. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    Please note that this is said about the sixth DAY, This is what brings forth God’s rest {in us}, God’s SABBATH. {no more death by sin}. This must happen before we have “God’s Rest” in us as our own pace and holiness.

    Heb_12:14 Follow peace with ALL men, AND holiness, without which no MAN shall see the Lord:

    Gen_2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

    Heb_4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. [Jesus Speaking}
    Ken Sheck

  4. Kevin Snowden says:

    hello ken, we have been told that good is of GOD and evil is of or from the devil right? then what is meant of GOD(father) by this verse: Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    Seems we have not read what GOD(father) has spoken to thru Isaiah the prophet.

  5. Kevin Snowden says:

    Int he the verse from Ezek.. 28 ie o Lucifer. If the old testament is written in Hebrew then how would the translator bring in a Latin term “Lucifer”. This is to say that this term is not in the Siniactic text. There is only one whom is to be known to be the morning Star(bright and shining) & he is our lord and savior Jesus Christ. As Peter makes this known in his letter. Truly this incorrect translation leads many to gross error

  6. Kevin Snowden says:

    As another point to be made on Ezek 28 let take notice that there is mention of a Cherb. Thus the begs the question is Satan a Cherb, Arch Angel or is he as the bible says of reptilian(serpent, dragon) Now with this info let take notice that Cherbs r listing in the book of gen in the garden and in Ezek and in the temple made by Moses. Please advise of the verse which tells us that Satan is a Cherb. Thus again with an assumption of not reading the verses clearly. This has lead to GROSS ERROR. hint the Cherb mentioned in Ezek is NOW disqualified because of going over to the evil side with Satan and his follows. As Ezek records this Cherb will be judged

    awaiting ur reply!!!

  7. Kevin Snowden says:

    As a another thing to take notice: In Ezek the Cherbs r & is very close to GOD(father). they r over the mercy seat. Ezek vision shows that as the wings touch at the top over the mercy seat. A throne of safire stone appeared and one sat on it…..So again Cherbs r close to GOD and these beings r not the devil, satan nor lucifer…assumptions of this has lead many to GROSS ERROR

  8. Ken Sheck says:

    Removal from the Book of Life?

    Lamb’s Book of “LIFE”. What is removed is not people, but spiritually understood and evil acting “things”. They are what are “not of life”, because they are of death. They are the causes of “sin”, or ungodlike actions.

    Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    As 2 Cor. 3:5 says, we are to minister the Spirit that GIVES life and NOT the letter that speaks of killing. This below helps explain how.we are to read scripture according to the Spirit that GIVES life.

    1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. No “man” knows the things of the spirit of God, so what are removed from the “book of life” are things which are of and in man that are not IN GOD.

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged {understood} of no man.

    So, the things that are removed from the book of LIFE are the things that defile the temple that God will eventually destroy from existence in those who are in Eternal life. These things are spiritual things, hate, anger, pain, unforgiveness, bitterness, selfishness, greed, etc.

    God removes \ destroys the things that defile the temple of God, our bodies. But God does not destroy the “temple”, our body. The things that defile the temple of God, our body, are the things that are already in the heart of humankind at the natural birth in the world. In due time, after they “teach us about themselves, as ministering spirits, these emotions and appetites that come out of the heart of man and defile the man {temple}, and cause us to sin, they will be “no more” in US. They too are ministering “spirits” or spiritual emotions and thoughts and so on that dwell in mankind when we are not perfected yet. But as we grow up to become mature Sons of God we realize they are ministering spirits that we need to understand and know about if we are to have the mind of God, who knows all things.

    God does not t each us those things by His spirit because they are only the things of a man that are not of or IN the Spirit that is GOD. As Jesus said…..

    Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
    Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
    Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed OUT OF THE MOUTH come forth FROM THE HEART {spirit of man}t; and they DEFILE the man. {temple}
    Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
    Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

    The things that will be removed \ destroyed from EACH body as the body is reconciled to God as Jesus did it, is the things of the “law of sin” or lusts of the flesh that are IN the flesh and have deceived man in the past about God.

    Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    God bless Ken

  9. Ken Sheck says:

    Hello Kevin. RE your reply… 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
    When you and I were born as a baby, we were full of Darkness, meaning ignorance as in we did not know anything. We did not know who we were, how we got here, what the big things walking around were {nurses, parents, etc.} and could not walk, talk, understand anything, etc. That is THE DARKNESS we are filled with at birth. God takes that darkness and begins to create HIS LIGHT in us and forms that light inot the correct understanding of the truth of God and of the world IN US. {The eyes of our UNDERSTANDING being enlightened as per Ephesians} This is so we can GROW UP {begin to be “formed” into His light}. This takes place in mankind over many eons of time as mankind is all one person, ADAM. We are all like cells on the body of mankind just like there are all the cells and different functions of our physical body, but they are all to work for the health and life of each body, as we are told we are to do Spiritually IN CHRIST as the body of Christ, spiritually.
    Also, when God begins to give us light, we see we were in the dark about many things, and thus he “created darkness and evil” IN OUR UNDERSTANDING where it did not exist before. This is how we are to see things Spiritually and keep it true that God does no evil and does not ever do any violence. Man has made God’s judgments into carnal man’s ways of judgment by war and killing and so on. In the O.T. we are told that men of Israel are to stone a sinner to death. BUT>>> the Spirit that gives life does not kill, as God’s law to Moses said. THou shall not Kill. Jesus testified to us that He did no violence, was always RESTORING man’s health and infirimities, and so on, He comes to SAVE men’s lives, not to destroy them.

    Luk_9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
    As I am sure you recall, Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, today, and forever. Any person who says that God physically and violently destroys any living person is understanding God according to the Spirit of man that is in him and does not know the things of God in this area yet.

    Thanks, and GOD Bless. Ken Sheck

  10. Ken Sheck says:

    Hello Kevin. As to the mercy Seat. First, we see that the “blood” had to be sprinkled on this “seat”. It is a MERCY seat, and the blood signifies that the truw wisdom about the mercy seat has to be given by the Holy Spirit. As scripture says, the blood signifies the Holy Spirit as the true we we must enter into the mercy seat where God and also we as Christ, are to sit. IT is a spiritually understood “seat” and condition we are to have in our hearts and minds before WE each can sit on that seat. There is no seat with physical CHERUBS sitting on it that God sits on. God is SPirit and is everywhere and is not limited to a “seat” somewhere as if he remained on that physical seat forever. The two Cherubim picture the Spiritual understanding of BOTH good and evil one must have as the Son of God in order to sit there. The people who are pictured as spiritually sitting in that Spirituall MERCY SEAH have to have the knowledge of good and of evil SEPARATED and kept apart from each other, not mixing them together as if they were ONE SPIRIT.

    Without Peace and Holiness NO ONE shall see God. And, God never does evil for evil to any person, just as we are told we are not to do IF we are of the Spirit that GIVES LIFE.
    Thanks and may God bless. Ken

  11. Kevin Snowden says:

    ken, seems u missed my point. Cherbs r covering the mercy seat which is figurative and can be seen. I mentioned the throne of GOD(father) ws up holded by the wings if the two cherbs wings. So, moving to my q where is the verse that tells us satan is a cherib or a fallen

  12. Kevin Snowden says:

    Now, I shall move forward, with the book of life. please be aware that the old testament in Deut. Moses speaks of a book recorded by GOD(father) and names of those Israelites were moved due to not keeping all of God(fathers) law, commandments & statues. In addition, names of kings were removed for doing that which was evil in the sight of the lord as they ruled Israel. Another point, men of valor were recorded in the book for notable deeds and at the same men’s name were removed for again for doing that which was evil…THIS IS ALL ACTUAL NOT SPIRITUAL OR MYSTICAL OR ANY THING BUT AS IT READS IN THE SCRIPTURES

  13. Ken SHeck says:

    I think that this can be much more simply put as simply meaning something that was meant for light or understanding to us, as a message to us, lost that purpose and became part of our darkness {ignorance} without us even knowing it. There is no angelic spiritual bodied beings that are evil and no angelic spiritual bodied Satan. Out of the heart of man come the things that defile EACH man. The knowledge of evil is a light to us when understood properly and we receive it’s “message” correctly with the correct response to it.
    This is the same thing that Peter mentions in “angels” being in chains of DARKNESS {our ignorance} until the “light of Christ goes on IN US about these things.

    After all, the tree of good AND evil was good for food, but is not good to eat. As in, choose the good and refuse the evil {to know God}. God bless. Ken

  14. Ken SHeck says:

    Do we think the book God keeps is really a book?

  15. Ken SHeck says:

    Can the way one believes and treats the bible in their own life cause the bible to be an idol?? Would you like an example of how Lucifer can be understood to fall from heaven {the Kingdom of God{ Ken Sheck

  16. Ken SHeck says:

    Hello Kevin Snowden. You wrote the following to me.

  17. Ken SHeck says:

    Hello Kevin. You wrote the following to me. ******we have been told that good is of GOD and evil is of or from the devil right? then what is meant of GOD(father) by this verse: Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things******
    Scripture also tells us to choose the good and refuse the evil. Let’s do that with the scripture you quoted and see it this way. As God forms His light, his truth, IN US, we have an understanding of darkness created IN US for us who did not know what the darkness was before. It is actually our ignorance, especially about the knowledge of evil. Which concerns the next part of that verse in Isaiah.

    Hebrews tells us that without PEACE and Holiness NO ONE SHALL SEE GOD. {that means, the eyes of our understanding will not be opened to us about what God is really like until WE ARE PEACE and have God’s righteousness in us as who we are as His tabernacle. And all those tabernacles in the truth make the city called New Jerusalem… ie.. God’s Peace, or we can call it the Residence of the Peace of God.

    As the Peace of God becomes more and more who we are within, we begin to have the truth about evil created IN OUR UNDERSTANDING. Keep in mind we all have to know all things to be one with God and God can not teach us about evil by His Spirit until we have experienced it in and upon our own selves. By HIS sufferings we will be made perfect. God Bless. Ken Sheck

  18. Ken SHeck says:

    Acts 2:17 In the last days I WILL pour out of my LOVE {spirit} on ALL flesh. He is not asking if he can do it. And I would like us to know, just in case some of us do not, that this includes all the animals, that are beasts in picture in the scrtptures.
    Including MANKIND.
    Ecc 3:11 He hath made EVERY THING beautiful IN HIS TIME also he hath set the WORLD in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

    Couple of things here. First the WORLD is automatically IN OUR HEART or spirit at birth. That is what makes it impossible for us to FIND OUT the work that GOD IS DOING.

    So, where do you think any are going to be left out since it is God who caused all to be BLINDED by the spirit of the world IN US automatically, until God decides we can not PARTICPATE with Him in growing up.

    Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth BEASTS; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

    Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of MEN, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that THEY THEMSELVES ARE **BEASTS**

    Now, we can understand why the kingdoms of man in history and even today are pictured as “beasts”. God bless Ken

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