THE CHILD SHALL DIE AN HUNDRED YEARS OLD

infant of days

This is so cool! Digging through more old studies 🙂

I’ve written before on the difference between A CHILD and A SON. This is something that I’ve been talking about for several years now…. but in all that time I never once looked at this verse is Isaiah:

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

I knew that my friend had talked about it before and I’ve always meant to go back and look at it again, but I just never did… and, clearly, I did not have the same “light bulb” moment when she shared it with me the first time or I never would have left it out of my own studies on the subject. When digging through a bunch of old files I found one of her old posts that I saved…. AND WOW!!! NOW I GET IT!!! 🙂

The following is a response from my friend Kim on an old forum we used to hang out at (one of many LOL) in response to a question about what happens when infants die. Will they still be little when we arrive on the other side? Do they stop aging or do they age slower? Do they age as they would here? Do they remain children for eternity?

The reply (my comments will be in color, if I add any… I did so on my paper copy and may include them here, too):

Hi XXX,

I don’t see it the same way (surprise right?) I again see this in Christ through a picture of Abraham, I truly believe it speaks of Him on the Cross delivering us from “the child” (Child dies) and given a Son, the marker of an hundred years lands on Abraham who Christ said saw “my day” and was glad. Child dying an hundred years is as our old man (shown as are ye not carnal a babe verses spiritual a son) it’s twofold.

Compare the verse you posted underlining “infant of days”, “old man”, “child shall die” and “an hundred years” old… look at Abraham and see “Christ’s exchange on the Cross”.

Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall A CHILD be born unto HIM that is AN HUNDRED YEARS OLD? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

Abraham says CHILD God says SON and to an OLD MAN

{WOW!!! Ever notice that??? Abraham says CHILD, but God says SON and to an OLD MAN!! You really have to understand the difference between A CHILD and A SON, to “get” THIS!! This is why it is written A CHILD “is born”, A SON “is given”. It is GOD who “gives” THE SON… the SON is born OF GOD!!}

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a SON INDEED; and thou shalt call his name ISAAC: and I will establish my covenant with HIM for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed “”” after HIM “”” (children of the flesh are not counted as seed)

{Children of the flesh are not counted as the seed… BUT that which is “born of the flesh” COMES “first”. As Paul points out, “the first man is of the earth”. That is why Jesus said this first, natural, carnal, mortal man “must be” BORN AGAIN. It is “the second man” who is born of the Spirit, born of God, created in the image and likeness of God… it is the second man who is A SON… indeed, THE PROMISED SEED… THE SON OF GOD!}

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be NO MORE thence an infant of days, nor an OLD MAN that hath not FILLED HIS DAYS: for THE CHILD shall DIE an HUNDRED YEARS OLD; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be “accursed”. (See Gal 3:13)

Abraham says CHILD, God says a SON and that of an OLD MAN. The CHILD shall DIE HUNDRED YEARS OLD is the exact time a SON is given Abraham (the promise given to Abraham is spoken of coming to us)

On the Cross itself He said to Mary (in type) Woman, BEHOLD THY SON. Christ dying was to DELIVER and be delivered of THAT – of a CHILD (under the law), no different then a servant. Delivered of a CHILD that a MAN should be born. I see these as spiritual truths concerning “NO MORE Children BUT SONS

{I talk about that in some of my other studies on the difference between A CHILD and A SON. Paul used himself as an example as one who “travailed in birth” (in order to be “delivered of the child”). I never noticed the same image presented in Heb 11, concerning Sarah.}

Heb 11:11 Through “faith” also Sara herself “received strength” to conceive SEED, and was DELIVERED OF a CHILD WHEN she was PAST AGE, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, “when he was tried”, offered up ISAAC: and he that had received the promises offered up HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,

{So what about Ishmael?? This seems to go right back to the fact that “the flesh IS NOT COUNTED for the seed”!! I’ve talked about this before when talking about Cain and “the generations of Adam in the day that God created man in the image of God” (Gen 5)… where CAIN IS NOT COUNTED!!! And “here” we see ISHMAEL IS NOT COUNTED!! WOW!!!! Now we understand WHY!!}

See the twofold in their declaration

“For Unto us a CHILD is BORN unto us a SON is GIVEN

On the Cross THE CHILD DIED , and there a SON was GIVEN

Thus the saying…

“””” NO MORE CHILDREN “””” BUT SONS….

The sinner an hundred years old after prophecy in picture in accordance with child/son and Christ made sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. The sinner is accursed… “He taketh away the sin of the world” your sins have returned unto me for I have redeemed thee.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth upon a tree:

I just don’t see infants turning 100 years old after a carnal truth they must be seen in Him in accordance their pictures and somehow validate not nullify the apostles.

AMEN!!!! Again, I have to just say… I MISS MY OLD STUDY PARTNER!!! I am STILL learning SO MUCH from you!!! I am going to look at this some more and maybe even add my own study to it – though I see nothing at all lacking here!!! I hope you all enjoy this stuff I am sharing as much as I am… because I am going to KEEP DIGGING through all of these files I saved!! 🙂 

All Blessings in Christ!

Christine

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… who also WERE IN CHRIST BEFORE ME

VectorIlloTemplate

Here I want to talk about…

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were  in Christ before me.

Oftentimes, when we think of this verse and what it means to be “in Christ” we think in terms of “location” – you are either “in Christ” or NOT “in Christ” (therefore somewhere “outside of” Christ). But it that really the message that Paul is trying to convey here? Is something getting ‘lost in translation’? You might come to think so (as I have) if you dive more deeply into the word translated “were”. The word is “ginomai” and, according to Strong’s it means “to cause to be” as in gen”-erate, to become or come into being – arise, be assembled, be brought to pass, be divided, be done, be ended, be finished (etc).

Here is the Strong’s entry:

G1096

γίνομαι

ginomai

ghin‘-om-ahee

A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): – arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

It seems to me that Paul is speaking about his (and their) “regeneration”, something we might also call their being “born again”. And we know that Jesus did say we MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

Joh 3:3,7 … Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God… Ye must be born again.

Take note of the fact that the words recorded in this passage for “born again” are “gennaō” and “anōthen”.

And we can see that gennaō is a variant of genos and genos comes from ginomai.

Strong’s entries:

G1080

γεννάω

gennaō

ghen-nah‘-o

From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: – bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

 

G509

ἄνωθεν

anōthen

an’-o-then

From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: – from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

 

Peter speaks of those who have been “born again”.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word used in Peter is “anagennaō” a combination of “ana” (which means UP) and “gennaō” (to precreate or regenerate)

 

Strong’s entries:

G313

ἀναγεννάω

anagennaō

an-ag-en-nah‘-o

From G303 and G1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again): – beget, (bear) X again.

 

G303

ἀνά

ana

an-ah’

A primary preposition and adverb; properly up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.): – and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.

See above for G1080

So I think it’s pretty clear that Paul is, indeed, saying that others were “born againBEFORE HE WAS. But the question that still needs to be answered is what does that have to do with being “in” (or NOT IN) “Christ”?

Are ONLY those who HAVE BEEN “born again” IN CHRIST?

For me the answer to that question is not a simple one. A simple yes or no will not really answer the question about “who” is in Christ and what that means. I say that because, while I do believe that all of those “in Christ” HAVE BEEN “born again”, I understand that some of those in Christ are still reckoned “dead” (or, better yet, “asleep” – which holds more of an ‘indication’ OF LIFE, but a life that is not yet REALIZED, a life that one is not yet aware of or AWAKENED TO).

You see, while many do not see themselves as being “in Christ’ UNTIL they HAVE PASSED “from death unto life” (or until they have been “born again”, which they equate with being AWAKE, not ALSEEP), I recognize the fact that Paul’s message was that it was “while we yet sinner” that “Christ died for us”. (Rom 5:8) And that it was “when we were dead in sin” that God “quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).” (Eph 2:5)

THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL!!!

Jesus came to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, to save the world FROM SIN AND DEATH, and BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED!!!

Jesus said: “And I, if I be lifted up, from the earth, shall DRAW ALL [men] unto me.

The word translated “draw” here is “helkuō helkō” and it means “to drag”.

G1670

ἑλκύω, ἕλκω

helkuō helkō

hel-koo‘-o, hel’-ko

Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): – draw. Compare G1667.

 

In Paul’s letter to the Ephesians he wrote of the ONE NEW MAN “created” IN CHRIST:

Eph 2:8-22

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Paul did not say one had to believe this before it would become true. The truth IS that WE ARE MADE ONE “through” HIS CROSS, made nigh by the shedding of HIS BLOOD.

It is not a matter of whether or not we are “in Christ”, Paul said we were “baptized into Christ” by being baptized into His death; that we were not only “buried with him” by baptism into HIS DEATH, we were also “raised with HimIN HIS RESURRECTION. (ALL while we were “yet sinner”, yet DEAD in sin.)

Rom 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

If one died for all, then were ALL DEAD! (2Cor 5:14)

The only way out of DEATH “is” THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

And Jesus said: “I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE”.

Paul said THE DEAD were gathered together IN ONE BODY BY THE CROSS and those who WERE DEAD… WERE RAISED FROM THE DEAD “with Him”…. Because they (we) are “in Him”…. IN CHRIST.

You see it’s not just a matter of whether or not we are “in Christ” (ALL were “gathered together” INTO ONE BODY “by” THE CROSS and “in Him” was made ONE NEW MAN), it is a matter of whether or not we have come to KNOW HIM and THE POWER of HIS RESURRECTION. (Php 3:10)

And this comes not by our being “in Christ” but by Christ being formed “in us”.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Little children are not yet sons, they are “yet carnal” and “to be carnally minded is death”. Here Paul is speaking about his “travail in birth” (AGAIN) and elsewhere he speaks of Eve (the church) being SAVED “in childbearing”, much the same way Jesus likened His disciples to A WOMAN “whose hour is come” TO BE DELIVERED OF “the child”.

I’ve written quite a bit on all of this before, so I won’t get into all of that “here”. Just wanted to address a question that was recently asked about Rom 16:17 and what it means to be “in Christ”….. though the real question might be what does it mean to be “ginomai” in Christ. (Understanding that even “the dead” are “in Christ”. Indeed, ALL were DEAD IN CHRIST BEFORE ANY were “made alive” IN CHRIST.)

All Blessings IN CHRIST!

Christine

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The Mystery of Iniquity: The Deceived and the Deceiver are His!

mystery of iniquity

Do you “TRY THE SPIRITS”??? You better! 😀

Going through a bunch of old studies I saved several years ago and came across this little gem from my friend Kim (best study partner E-V-E-R!!) I started to add a few more passages that I thought of as I was reading through and ‘order it up’ a little bit differently and remove all the pretty colors (which I know drive some people crazy! 🙂 ) but then I thought better of it. I love it just as it is (though I added two or three comments of my own within). This speaks VOLUMES to me (and I have always LOVED the colors!!). I hope it speaks volumes to you, too.

Chrissie FOLLOW THIS I have TEN things going on here in the background completely unable to give myself to each one BUT THIS IS KOOL!! WE ARE PROVED by FALSE PROPHETS TOO SIS!!! I never KNEW THAT!! And THIS plays INTO something ELSE I’m seeing in another study NOT EVEN IN THIS ONE!! OMG!!! HE is AWESOME and ALL POWERFUL (whoa!!)

In regards to the lying spirit God sent doesn’t Jesus speak to it when He speaks of what is false (that is to rise up)? These are the seducing spirits Jesus speaks of as that which seduces is that sent to “persuade” (or deceive) and if such that IF it were at all possible it would deceive the very elect of God.

1Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

[This sort of makes me think of when the sons of God present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them and the Lord asks Satan: “Have you considered my servant Job?”]

Who shall persuade

Reminds me of BROAD or WIDE is the way that leadeth to destruction and MANY (not few) go the way therein

1) to be spacious, be open, be wide

a) (Qal) to be spacious or open or wide (as opposed to “narrow”?)

b) (Hiphil) to make spacious, make open

2) to be simple, entice, deceive, persuade

1) to be open-minded, be simple, be naive

2) to be enticed, be deceived

b) (Niphal) to be deceived, be gullible

1) to persuade, seduce

2) to deceive

1) to be persuaded

2) to be deceived

 AVentice deceive persuade flatter allure enlarge allure enlarge silly one silly

It also speaks of “silly women” (led away by lusts) in the NT. Paul speaks of their own NOT using “flattering words” even as a “cloak” for coveteousness.

But continuing here (from Kings)

1Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

2Thes 2:9 Even him, whose coming ***is after*** (((the working of))) Satan **with all power** and signs and lying wonders,

[I would have started with verse 7 (Hence that portion of the title of the blog): 2Th 2:7-9 For THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after THE WORKING OF SATAN with ALL POWER and SIGNS and LYING WONDERS,]

Job 12:16 With HIM **is strength and wisdom**: the deceived and the deceiver **are HIS**.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

2Thes 2:11…. for this cause **God shall** send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: **if** another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness **in them** that perish; ((( because ))) they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are **of God**: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Mat 24:5 For ***many*** shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

1Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Mark 13:22-23 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: (((behold))) I have foretold you all things.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Prov 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Rev 2:2 ….. thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Duet 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God ***proveth you*** (((to know))) whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

2Thes 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Titus 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall **depart from the faith**, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

It speaks also (in Kings) to the “SILLY” (in being led astray)

2Titus 3:4-7 Traitors, heady, highminded, **lovers of pleasures** more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive ***silly women*** laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gal 5:24  they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Ephes 5:5-7 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
nor covetous man, who is an idolater,
hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Mark 13:22… to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

1John 2:26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

This is SO KOOL!! **Prove them** cause the Lord uses even them **TO PROVE YOU** in whether you hearken (or take HEED) to them OVER HIM

Duet 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, ***to know whether*** YE love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Let EVERY MAN BE A LIAR a GOD BE TRUE

Ezek 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Is NOT MY WORD as A FIRE?

Jerm 5:14 ((( Because)))) ye speak THIS WORD, ((( behold ))) I will make MY WORDS in thy mouth FIRE, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Heb 12:29 For OUR GOD is a consuming FIRE.

GREATER is HE that IS IN YOU!!

Mat 10:20 For it is NOT YE that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Duet 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

Pslam 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; **in that
very day**
his thoughts perish.

Ezek 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is
he to be accounted of
?

HIS WORD = FIRE= BREATH of HIS MOUTH (where HE makes the words IN YOUR MOUTH A FIRE = THE SPIRIT of YOUR FATHER SPEAKETH IN YOU = CONSUMING FIRE)

Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Chrissie!!!! Check Rivers on the thread called “IN a FLAMING FIRE” He makes His MINISTERS A FLAMING FIRE and Paul said “Having IN” a READINESS to revenge!!! HE WAS AN
ANGEL!!!!!!!!!!

OMG!! There’s MORE on the HARVEST MADE READY it was TO THE ANGELS (concerning OTHER MENS LABORS!!) That’s WHY Paul could say THIS….

2Cr 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man’s line of things ****MADE READY*** TO OUR HAND. 

They (the REAPERS= ANGELS) entered INTO others MENS LABOURS so their line was made READY TO THE ANGELS = STARS that APPEAR (not at night) BUT IN THE MORNING!!

Neh 4:21 So ***we laboured*** in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning **till** the stars appeared

(Stars = Angels= REAPERS)

John 4:38 I sent you **to reap** that whereon ye bestowed ***no labour***:
**other men** laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

It’s THIS which PAUL KNEW was MADE READY **TO** His HAND, which was His measure of RULE 

2Cr 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

There’s an INCREASE, if one PROSPERS the OTHER is ENLARGED as its a WORK of GROWING
TOGETHER… This is what is catching my eye now. These things are SO KOOL!! Our GOD SO ROCKS!!

 [I do not have access to that study she is referring to above; not even sure I ever read it. If I did I do not remember it – this is from 2006 – but I have written on the angels and how He makes His ministers a flaming fire and the harvest and the reapers, etc, in various other studies on this blog and I am sure they probably cover much of the same material.]

Hope you enjoyed this as much as I did!!!

All Blessings in Christ!

Christine

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Rev. 14:9-11

Rev 14-11

The question was asked:

From a UR standpoint how do you explain Rev.14:9-11?

Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

My response:

From my perspective (which is, admittedly, not the common UR perspective) the entire book of Revelation is about the revelation/appearing/presence of Jesus Christ. That event took place in the natural world nearly 2000 years ago and the destruction that is spoken of in the book of Revelation, which takes place at His appearing, was fulfilled in the natural world in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem,which brought to an end the Covenant God made with Israel through Moses.

This is, I suppose, a very Preterist view of the book of Revelation. However, I do not believe that is the end of the story. Those things which “are seen” (which are temporal) are types and shadows that God uses to show us those things that “are not seen” (which are eternal). And it is to these things that we are to be looking (2 Cor 4:18).

So, applied spiritually, all of these events take place “at the revelation of Jesus Christ“, as is pertains to our hope of glory which is “Christ in you!” (Col 1:27)

And that is why, I believe, the next two verses are also important to understand verses 9-11:

Rev 14:12-13 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

This is speaking about those who “die in the Lord from henceforth”, so that cannot be ‘the end’’ of whatever is happening, right?

Going back to 9-11:

Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So we can see that both things are connected to “the presence of the Lord“. (This is, after all, about “the revelation of Jesus Christ”, right?). Some are given REST and the others have NO REST.

This, to me, seems reminiscent of what Jesus said about the resurrection of the dead:

Joh 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[I think that the majority of those who believe in UR believe that we have not yet seen “the resurrection of the dead”. They see it a future event, even two future events: the first resurrection (for the elect) and the second resurrection (in which everyone else is raised, to judgment and the lake of fire). I do not understand the scriptures that way, so this is simply how I understand the passage in question. I am not speaking for anyone else. I am sure others will have a different answer.]

I believe that this resurrection took place (or takes place, spiritually speaking) at the sending forth of the Spirit/Word/Son of God ‘into the earth’, into these earthen vessels in which we are told we have this treasure (2 Cor 4:7)

We read earlier in John:

Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Here we see those who REST and those who HAVE NO REST (upon whom the wrath of God abides).

All of these things, to me, speak of two men: the first/natural man, the outward man, who walks “in the flesh”, and the second/spiritual man, the inward man, who walks “in the spirit”; the old man, who according to Paul, was CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and buried with him in HIS DEATH (= “the second death”) and the new man created “in Christ” who, according to Paul, was RAISED WITH HIM in HIS (= “the first”) RESURRECTION. (And blessed and holy is he that hath part in it!! (Rev 20:6))

And what is “the smoke of their torment” (those who worship the beast and his image, the natural man is himself a beast, right? Ecc 3:18) that ascends up ‘forever and ever’? I believe we can look at the children of Israel (who were given to be an example to us) to find the answer:

Isa 65:2-6 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine’s flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; Which say, Standby thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

Many seem to believe that, for most, judgment comes after physical death. Part of the reason they see it that way is because most of us have been taught to believe that this is what Heb 9:27 tells us:

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

But whose death is being spoken of in this passage?

Heb 9:24-28  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

While this passage does indicate that it is appointed unto men “once to die”, this passage is about the death of ONE MAN, Christ, and it says: “and after this judgment”. So it is not that men die and then face judgment, but that judgment comes/came after the death of CHRIST. And this is why Jesus could say: “NOW is the judgment of this world” (John 12:31)

The scriptures say that we are recompensed IN THE EARTH (both the wicked and the righteous):

Pro 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

I believe that this is why, when Jesus is described in the book of Revelation, HIS FEET are described as being “like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace”.

Rev 1:14-15 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

And we know that THE EARTH IS HIS FOOTSTOOL.

The passage goes on to read:

Rev 1:16  And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

We learn from v20 that the seven stars are “the angels of the seven churches”, to whom John is supposed to send the letters he is to write.

Going back to v15: “…and his voice as the sound of many waters”.

I believe this confirms that Jesus speaks through men, those in whom he has been formed, those (like Paul) who stand “in Christ’s stead” (2 Cor 5:20).

As does not even THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE say COME!!

Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The book of the revelation of Jesus Christ does not end with men being cast into the lake of fire. It ends with a call…. COME!!!

Jesus told men almost 2000 years ago (at the revelation of Jesus Christ in the flesh), men who would say there were yet four months to the harvest, that THE FIELD IS WHITE ALREADY TO HARVEST!

Joh 4:34-38 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

Who were these other men who labored before the disciples of Jesus?

Heb 11 speaks of many from the OT who “all died in faith”. But how many are there that believe that Christ has nothing to do with the OT people because Jesus had not yet been born? When I speak of Christ in relation to those in the OT, I am usually directed to Heb 11:13:

Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off,and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Of course, the emphasis is on the fact that they had not received the promises. It doesn’t matter that the same verse says these all died “in faith” and they did see the promises (afar off), were persuaded of them, embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

If we are “saved by grace through faith” (Eph2:8), then how can we believe that they were not just because they looked forward to the cross just as we look back to the cross?  And while this verse says they had not received the promises (plural, and the list does include Abraham) we go on to read in v17 of Abraham, who when he was tried, offered up Isaac. It says that “He that had RECEIVED THE PROMISES offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, that in Isaac shall they seed be called: accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

So we go from a list of those who are said not that have received the promises (which included Abraham) to Abraham who “had received the promises”, who by faith offered up his son Isaac, accounting that God was able to raise him up from the dead. That is FAITH. Do you know anyone who has that kind of FAITH?

No wonder Abraham is called the father of the faithful!! How could such a great faith NOT SAVE HIM?

But I digress (which I think I have a habit of doing, sorry).

If we keep reading to v39 we see that “these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not THE PROMISE”. So what was “the promise”? Wasn’t it A SEED that was to come through Isaac?

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

I do not believe that this is, at all, intended to even infer that those who lived a life of faith in the OT did not have access to Christ. Who is both the author and the finished of our faith, anyway? We read in the very next chapter of Heb:

Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

But we don’t even need to go that far. Beginning in Heb 11:23, we read of Moses (one of those listed as having “died in faith, not having received the promises”):

Heb 11:23-26  By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

The writer of Hebrews, after listing many of those in the OT who died in faith, writes (v32): “And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:” We can read what Peter had to say about the prophets:

1Pe 1:1-11 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not,yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

The prophets did prophesy “by the spirit of Christ which was in them”. The spirit of Christ which was IN THEM testified BEFOREHAND the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow!  We know that:

Gal 3:6-9 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith,the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

But maybe the real question is: How far does faith take us? Does it take us only as far this life takes us, only to end in death as we await a future resurrection, a time when we will face judgment, a time when many will be cast in the lake of fire, which is the second death?

I don’t believe so. As I said from the beginning, the book of Revelation is about “the revelation of Jesus Christ”. And, on a spiritual level, that revelation takes place IN US, as it is CHRIST IN YOU that is THE HOPE OF GLORY! (Col 1:17)

Peter speaks several times of “the revelation of Jesus Christ” (or “the appearing of Jesus Christ”) to those who have not yet seen him, to those who “for a season” are “in heaviness through manifold temptations”, that Peter says is “the trial of your faith”. He said they were RECEIVING the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls!! (Keep in mind that Christ comes “the second time” unto them that look for him and he comes not as a sin offering, but “unto salvation” (Heb 9:28).)

They were receiving CHRIST, who is both the AUTHOR and the FINISHER of our faith. Paul wrote to those he called “my little children”, to whom he said: “I travailed in birth again until Christ be formed in you.” (Gal 4:19)

John, too, writes to “little children” (he also addressed “fathers” and “young men”, addressing their relationship to and knowledge of the Lord), telling them that that “it is the last time” and encouraging them to continue to abide in Christ and not be seduced by those who would seduce them “that when he shall appear, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at his coming.” (1Jn 2)

Paul also wrote to the Thessalonians about “his coming”:

1Th 2:11-20 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God,and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire. Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us. For what is our hope, or joy,or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? For ye are our glory and joy.

He mentions it again at the end of Chp 3:

1Th 3:11-13 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

He also offers a word of comfort concerning “them which are asleep”:

1Th 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant,brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not,even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now it is said that “the dead in Christ” are those who have already died and who are “asleep” in their graves awaiting the resurrection of the dead that will take place “at His coming” (ie “the second coming”, as it is so often called).

I believe this is true, but not in the sense that it is most often taught. I do not believe that Paul is referring to corpses in physical graves or souls that sleep in sheol/hades awaiting a resurrection that has yet to take place, as even many do today, nearly 2000 years after Jesus said: “I COME QUICKLY.”

I believe we have failed to believe the words that Jesus spoke to Martha at the resurrection of Lazarus when he said: “I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE.”  When Jesus told Martha that her brother would rise again, Martha said: “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” And isn’t that exactly what we keep saying today while we wait for that blessed “resurrection”, while we wait for “his coming”?

But Jesus did not say: “Well said, Martha.” Jesus said: “I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE: he that believeth in me, THOUGH HE WERE DEAD,YET SHALL HE LIVE: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE.” (John 11:23-26)

Jesus asks: “Believest thou this?

In what way is Jesus THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE? It seems that many believe that this has to do with Jesus coming, one day, to call us out of our graves, just as he did with Lazarus. But is that what “the resurrection of the dead” is all about? Is it about corpses in physical graves? Or is it about “the body of this death” of which Paul spoke when he wrote:

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

He gives us the answer in the very next verse:

Rom 7:25-8:15  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We can read the preceding verses and see that Paul was telling them that THE OLD MAN WAS CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST (the the body of sin might be destroyed). And because the old man IS DEAD, Paul was exhorting them to yield themselves to God, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD.

Rom 6:12-14  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead,and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul is telling them that, through Christ, they have been REDEEMED FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH!!

Paul wanted them to KNOW that they were not only BURIED WITH HIM “by baptism into his death”, but that they “also should walk in the newness of life” (having also been RAISED WITH HIM).

Rom 6:3-5  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Now, obviously, Paul is not speaking of physical things here. Though Jesus’ death and resurrection were PHYSICAL, Paul is clearly indicating that our participation in those events “with him” IS NOT PHYSICAL. Going back to Rom 8 we see that THE SPIRIT that raised Jesus from the dead is at work IN THESE MORTAL BODIES and “if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness”. And if we look at Paul’s letter to the believers at Colosse, we can see that he speaks to them, as well, of being BURIED WITH HIM. But not only did Paul tell those at Colosse that they were buried with him in death, but that they were also RISEN WITH HIM “through the faith of the operation of God” who raised him from the dead!! (Col2:12) Paul said they had been “quickened together with him” (v13) According to Paul, they had already been made “partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light”, having been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of the Son of God (Col1:12-13).

Paul tells the Colossians that if they be “risen with Christ” then they need to set their affections on those things above, for they “are dead” and their life “is hid with Christ in God” UNTIL HE WHO IS THEIR LIFE (Christ) SHALL APPEAR. And when HE APPEARS then shall they ALSO APPEAR WITH HIM IN GLORY.

Col 3:1-4  If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The MYSTERY that was kept HID, but was BEING REVEALED was “CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY”.

This is “the mystery of Christ”. It was not just about the things that had just recently taken place, things that took place outside of them, but those things which had taken place and needed to take place “within” them (which are the same things that have taken place, are taking place and/or need to take place “within” us all), that THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD might take place.

Paul tells us that “the heir as long as he is A CHILD differs nothing from A SERVANT” (thou he be lord of all):

Gal 4:1-9  Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, where unto ye desire again to be in bondage?

This “manifestation of the sons of God” takes place in “the day of the Lord”, so how and when does “that day” COME?

Let us go back to Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians:

1Th 5:1-9 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say,Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love;and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Paul is telling those who lived 2000 years ago that they knew perfectly well how that day comes (even if they did not know when). He said it comes AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT!! AS TRAVAIL UPON A WOMAN WITH CHILD!! (Think, also, of Jesus’ words to His disciples in John 16.)

But what else does he tells them? He tells them that they are already “the children of light” and “the children of the day”!! (And, in the Greek, Paul did not say “children” but SONS (uihos).) He tells them not to sleep, as do others, but to WATCH AND BE SOBER, for those who SLEEP sleep IN THE NIGHT! And those who are drunk are drunk IN THE NIGHT! Paul tells them that they ARE NOT OF THE NIGHT, NOR OF DARKNESS!!

I would suggest that this makes them THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION, of whom Jesus spoke in Luke 20 when he said: “Now that the dead are raised even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”.

Take note, again, that the word here is not “children” but “sons” (uihos), in the Greek. Also take note of the fact that the Sadducees were questioning Jesus concerning the resurrection of the dead after a very carnal understanding of what the resurrection of the dead might be, applying it to a postmortem event which has to do with corpses in physical graves (which is how many today still understand “the resurrection of the dead”) and Jesus told them (in the Mat account): “Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

The account in Luke:

Luk 20:34-38  And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world,and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

The account in Matthew:

Mat 22:29-32  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Please note that Jesus did not say that the dead will be raised, but that the dead ARE RAISED!! And is this not exactly what Paul also said? And even though Paul pointed to the resurrection OF JESUS as his ‘proof’ that there is A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, Jesus spoke these words BEFORE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION and even applied them to ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB!!

Now some will say that “Abraham is dead, and the prophets”. But was it Jesus who said that or the Jews, who accused Jesus of HAVING A DEVIL, when Jesus said: “if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death” (John 8:51):

Joh 8:48-56  Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing:it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Abraham saw THE DAY OF THE LORD and he REJOICED and WAS GLAD!! But still we seem to prefer the words of the Jews (“Abraham is dead, and the prophets”) over the words of Jesus (“If a man keep my saying he shall never see death”). Why is that? I think it is because we hear the same thing the Jews heard in the words of Jesus…. THE WORDS OF THE SERPENT (“Ye shall not surely die”)!!

Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

This is why Jesus was accused of having a devil and why so many today are accused of believing the serpent when they quote Jesus and tell people, IF YOU KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS YOU WILL NEVER SEE DEATH!! For HE IS THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE!! And those who HAVE THE SON, HAVE LIFE!! (1Jn 5:12) They HAVE PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE!! (1Jn 3:14)

We simply do not understand who “the dead” are!! And we fail to acknowledge that there were TWO TREES in the garden which God planted: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (of which God warned and the serpent spoke) AND THE TREE OF LIFE (the tree to which OVERCOMERS and those who KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS are given access).

Rev 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

This is what THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST is all about! We are called to COME!!!

Rev 22:1-21  And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

And we COME unto A HOLY CITY, the NEW JERUSALEM!!

Heb 12:18-29  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake): But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape,if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

This, my dear brothers and sisters, is not a postmortem event. THE LORD IS RISEN!!! The trumpet has sounded!! The call has gone out!! COME!!! And ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD!!

According to Paul, our desire is NOT TO BE UNCLOTHED, but TO BE CLOTHED UPON, that MORTALITY might be SWALLOWED UP OF LIFE!!!

2Co 5:1-5  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

This is the difference between A CHILD and A SON!! The difference is CHRIST IN YOU!!

Gal 4:19-31  My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agaris mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written,Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Paul spoke of being A CHILD and becoming A MAN!

1Co 13:1-13  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Keep in mind that we are MADE PERFECT IN LOVE!!

1Jn 4:7-21 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And wehave known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

And Paul speaks of those who ALREADY BE PERFECT!!

Php 3:1-21 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus,and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Please note that Paul did not say he HAD NOT attained unto the resurrection of the dead, but that he COUNTED NOT HIMSELF to have attained and he tells those who “be perfect” to WALK BY THE SAME RULE!! Why?

First, because THE RESURRECTION IS NOT PAST!!

2Ti 2:11-19 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Jesus is he who IS, WAS, AND IS TO COME!! (And he comes “as a thief in the night”, to those who “sleep”.)

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Second, because we are not called to bear witness of ourselves! If we bear witness of ourselves, our witness it not true!

Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

This is something even Job speaks of:

Job 9:19-21  If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead? If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

Beloved, there is A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD and HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST!! And IF CHRIST BE IN YOU….

Rom 8:10-14  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

It is THIS MORTAL (not corpses in physical graves) who MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. It is THIS CORRUPTIBLE (not corpses in physical graves) who MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION. And we do that when we PUT ON CHRIST!!

Have you PUT ON CHRIST? Are we not admonished to do so?

Rom 13:10-14 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Doesn’t even Paul tell the Galatians that ALL who have been baptized into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST? (And when were we baptized into Christ??)

Gal 3:17-29 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children (SONS) of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Again, the promises were not made TO CORPSES but to MORTAL MEN! And the promise is that IF WE WILL COME UNTO HIM (WHO IS OUR LIFE) THEN WE WILL HAVE LIFE. If we have come unto Him, we HAVE PASSED from death unto life IN HIM, who IS THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE!!

Joh 5:24-40  Verily, verily,I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself,which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Jesus asks:

Joh 11:23-26  Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE: HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME, THOUGH HE WERE DEAD, YET SHALL HE LIVE: AND WHOSOVER LIVETH AND BELIEVETH IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE. BELIEVEST THOU THIS?

Do we believe?

I know this is a lot to answer the initial question asked, but it’s hard to answer one question without also having to answer other questions that will, inevitably, arise out of the answer. I did not (here) touch on a few other things that could have been touched on as well, especially concerning ‘the dead’ as it pertains to ‘the resurrection of the dead’ but, as I have done so in previous studies, I chose to leave them out of this one, as it was already getting to be so long. It is way longer than I initially wanted it to be. Perhaps I will touch on some of those things (“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven”, John 3:13, and “Let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day”, Acts 2:29) when I get back to the “I AM” statements made by Jesus, which I talked about in my last note (and still want to dive into, particularly the 7 statements made in the book of John, which includes the above).

To quote John again:

Rev 22:20-21  He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

All blessings in Christ,

Christine

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A CHILD IS BORN… A SON IS GIVEN

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When we FIRST BELIEVE we are

SEALED ***by*** THE HOLY SPIRIT ***of*** PROMISE

We WALK ***BY FAITH*** ((tried **IN FIRE**))

As ***CHILDREN*** OF GOD

Until we COME TO ***THE END*** OF OUR FAITH

Even ***THE SALATION OF OUR SOULS***

AT ***THE APPEARING*** OF JESUS CHRIST

CHRIST ***IN YOU***, THE ***HOPE*** OF GLORY!!

THE ***PROMISE*** OF ETERNAL LIFE!

When ***HE APPEARS***

Then SHALL WE ***ALSO APPEAR*** WITH HIM ***IN GLORY***

Then shall we ***SEE HIM*** FACE TO FACE

Then shall we ***KNOW*** even as we are ***KNOWN***

Then shall we be CALLED A ***SON*** OF GOD

Having ***THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON***

By which we cry ***ABBA***, FATHER!

{{Praising the Lord!!}}

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THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF GOD!

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Did you know that “the heavens” declare the glory of God? That the heavens “speak”? That “in them” God has set “a tabernacle for the sun”?

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF GOD; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. THEIR LINE IS GONE OUT THROUGH ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE END OF THE WORLD. IN THEM HATH HE SET A TABERNACLE FOR THE SUN. (Psa 19:1-4)

This is beautiful!!

[Most of the rest of this “nothing new”, things I have written on before. But I just thought this passage (which I don’t think I have ever included before) was just beautiful!!]

Have you ever wondered if this speaks to more than just the natural “heavens” that we see when we walk outside and look up at the sky?

Look at what Paul says about “them that preach the gospel”!

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? AND HOW SHALL THEY PREACH EXCEPT THEY BE SENT? as it is written, HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THEM THAT PREACH THE GOSPEL OF PEACE, AND BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, HAVE THEY NOT HEARD? Yes verily, THEIR SOUND WENT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. (Rom 10:13-18)

Their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the end of the world! Sound familiar?

What did Jesus tell his disciples?

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, LIFT UP YOUR EYES, AND LOOK ON THE FIELDS; for THEY ARE WHITE ALREADY TO HARVEST. And HE THAT REAPETH RECEIVETH WAGES, AND GATHERETH FRUIT UNTO LIFE ETERNAL: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. And herein is that saying true, ONE SOWETH, AND ANOTHER REAPETH. I SENT YOU TO REAP that whereon ye bestowed no labour: OTHER MEN LABOURED, and YE ARE ENTERED INTO THEIR LABOURS. (John 4:35-38)

Jesus said the field was white already to harvest and he sent his disciples to reap!

Who are “the reapers”?

The reapers are “the angels”!

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and THE REAPERS ARE THE ANGELS. (Mat 13:38-39)

When the “firstbegotten” came into the world, God said: “And let all the angels of God worship him”!

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM. (Heb 1:6)

Paul was received “as an angel of God”.

And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Gal 4:14)

How might one become “an angel of God”?

According to Jesus it comes by “the resurrection of the dead”.

And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: NEITHER CAN THEY DIE ANYMORE: FOR THEY ARE EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS; AND ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, BEING CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For HE IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING: for all live unto him. (Luk 20:34-38)

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, BUT ARE AS THE ANGELS OF GOD IN HEAVEN. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING. (Mat 22:29-32)

Most believe that this speaks of a postmortem resurrection, but does it? Does one need to die, physically, to be resurrected from the dead?

According to Paul we were quickened together with Christ even while we “were dead in trespasses and sin”.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:1-9)

Indeed, Jesus himself said that if he would be “lifted up from the earth” that he would DRAW (DRAG, in the Greek) ALL MEN UNTO HIMSELF.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (John 12:32)

Paul said, if we love the brethren, we know we “have passed” from death unto life.

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that WE HAVE PASSED from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. (1Jn 3:13-15)

At the resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus told Martha that “He” is “the resurrection and the life”.

Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: AND WHOSOEVER LIVETH AND BELIEVETH IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this? (John 11:23-26)

So, we know that “in the resurrection” they neither marry nor are they given in marriage, but are “as the angels of God in heaven”. So what do “the angels” have to do with “the heavens”?

Well, wouldn’t an angel be a heavenly or celestial being? One of “the hosts of heaven”?

And didn’t Paul speak about there being both a natural body and a spiritual body, the spiritual bodies being likened to the sun, the moon AND THE STARS, each star differing in glory one from another star in glory?

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  (1Co 15:40-44)

Now let’s take a look at what the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ says about “the angels of the churches”:

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. THE SEVEN STARS ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. (Rev 1:20)

Jesus holds these “stars”, who are “the angels of the churches”, in His right hand!!

Turning back again to Psa 19:

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF GOD; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. THEIR LINE IS GONE OUT THROUGH ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE END OF THE WORLD. IN THEM hath he set A TABERNACLE FOR THE SUN, (Psa 19:1-4)

IN THEM hath he set A TABERNACLE FOR THE SUN!!

Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU? (1Co 3:16)

Hallelujah!! CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY!! This was “the mystery” that was hidden, the GOSPEL which Paul was called to preach!

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet NOW HATH HE RECONCILED IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH THROUGH DEATH, to present you HOLY AND UNBLAMEABLE AND UNREPROVEABLE IN HIS SIGHT: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh FOR HIS BODY’S SAKE, which is THE CHURCH: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even THE MYSTSERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID from ages and from generations, BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERY MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. (Col 1:21-29)

In Revelation, John said he saw an “angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwells on the earth.

Rev 14:6  And I saw another ANGEL fly IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, HAVING THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL TO PREACH UNTO THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Who is this angel preaching the gospel to those who dwell on the earth? Is it an invisible winged creature that lives in a far-off place called “heaven”? Or could it be someone like Paul?

Gal 4:13-14 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I PREACHED THE GOSPEL UNTO YOU at the first. And my temptation which was in MY FLESH YE DESPISED NOT, NOR REJECTED; but RECEIVED ME AS AN ANGEL OF GOD, even AS CHRIST JESUS.

Paul tells us: “He gave some apostles and some prophets and some EV-ANGEL-ISTS and some pastors and teachers… for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ”:

Eph 4:11-12  And HE GAVE some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, EV-ANGEL-ISTS; and some, pastors and teachers; FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:

Jesus said that in the time of harvest “the Son of man shall send forth His angels”:

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (age); AND THE REAPERS ARE THE ANGELS. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). THE SON OF MAN SHALL SEND FORTH HIS ANGELS, and THEY SHALL GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND, AND THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. WHO HATH AND EAR, LET HIM HEAR. (Mat 13:37-43)

These men who labor in the fields are not the first!

Joh 4:37-38 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I SENT YOU TO REAP that whereon ye bestowed no labour: OTHER MEN LABOURED, and YE ARE ENTERED INTO THEIR LABOURS.

It is to THE ANGELS OF THE CHURCHES (to THE STARS which are held in His right hand) that the Lord speaks!

Rev 1:17-20 And WHEN I SAW HIM, I FELL AT HIS FEET AS DEAD. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The MYSTERY of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. THE SEVEN STARS ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and THE SEVEN CANDLESTICKES which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES.

Rev 2:1  UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 2:8  And UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Rev 2:12  And TO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Rev 2:18  And UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Rev 3:1  And UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 3:7  And TO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:14  And UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

John speaks of “the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven” being opened and “the angels” coming out of the temple, having the seven plagues:

And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: And THE SEVEN ANGELS CAME OUT OF THE TEMPLE, HAVING THE SEVEN PLAGUES, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; AND NO MAN WAS ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE TEMPLE, TILL THE SEVEN PLAGUES OF THE SEVEN ANGELS WERE FULFILLED. (Rev 15:5-8)

Why the angels?

Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: THIS HONOUR HAVE ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD. (Psa 149:1-9)

See also:

Do ye not know that THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (1Co 6:2-3)

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For AS THE FATHER RAISETH UP THE DEAD, AND QUICKENETH THEM; EVEN SO THE SON QUICKENETH WHOM HE WILL. [PRESENT TENSE] For THE FATHER JUDGETH NO MAN, BUT HATH COMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT UNTO THE SON: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE. Verily, verily, I say unto you, THE HOUR IS COMING, AND NOW IS, WHEN THE DEAD SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD: and THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority TO EXECUTE JUDMGENT ALSO, BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF MAN. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE, AND SHALL COME FORTH; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (Joh 5:19-29)

Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: AS MY FATHER HATH SENT ME, EVEN SO SEND I YOU. (Joh 20:21)

AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD!! (1 John 4:17)

But YE ARE COME  UNTO MOUNT SION, and UNTO THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and TO AN INNUMERABLE COMPANY OF ANGELS, To THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are WRITTEN IN HEAVEN, and TO GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL, and TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, (Heb 12:22-23)

YE ARE COME!! Written in the second perfect tense, which describes and action which is viewed as having been COMPLETED IN THE PAST, ONCE AND FOR ALL, NOT NEEDING TO BE REPEATED!

NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the accepted time! NOW is the day of salvation!!

COME LORD JESUS!!

All Blessings in Christ,

Christine

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How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer!

lucifer-fallen

Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The NIV translates this verse a little differently:

“How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR.

This really disturbed a gentleman in an online discussion forum several years ago. He was a huge advocate for the KJV, not just any KJV, but the 1611 KJV. His claim was that the 1611 KJV is the only “true word of God”.

His protest was that the NIV change “Lucifer” to “MORNING STAR” which is, of course, a reference to “Jesus Christ” in Rev 22:16:

Rev 22:16  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

This he saw as blasphemy, a blatant perversion of the text. I am not sure why he didn’t have a problem with the following statement: “… son of the morning”, which is also found in the 1611 KJV, but he didn’t seem to be bothered by that.

I think his biggest problem is a common problem. Most believers have been taught to believe that this reference to “Lucifer” is a reference to Satan. And we have been taught to believe that Satan is God’s arch enemy, a fallen angel, and the king of hell.

But have we been taught correctly?

I have come to see “Satan” very differently over the last several years. I address that is some of my older studies where I look at the connections that I see in scripture concerning “the serpent” (that is satan, the devil), the “tongue” ((of the)) “wicked” (who have THEIR PART in the lake of fire which is THE SECOND DEATH) and the “carnal mind” and that which has “the power of death”.

I find it all very fascinating!! And while I might still see satan, the devil, the serpent, that old dragon as “a fallen angel”, it’s not the type of “fallen angel” most people are thinking of.

You can read my studies on it elsewhere, but the following is the reply of a good friend of mine made to this complaint about the NIV. I hope it blesses you as much as it has blessed me… back then and again now as I dig through the dust and pull out some of these old studies and posts that I have saved over the years.

Lucifer = “light-bearer” (in relation to the King of Babylon)

Ever notice Jesus was to “look upon” as TWO STONES and that “This child” IS SET for THE FALL (FIRST) and THE RISING (((AGAIN))) of many in Israel?

He was to look upon as unto (two stones) the Jasper and the sardius

1) a sardius, a precious stone of which there are two types, the former is called a carnelian (because flesh coloured) and the latter a sard

How thou hast FALLEN (in relation to the former)

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The LIGHT IN THEM was DARKNESS (a paradox)… IF the light that is in you be darkness which shows exactly that (in accord with Paul) which said he was a Jew (after THE FLESH) which is OUTWARD (verses INWARD)

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In Paul is a “pattern” of the longsuffering of God (who walked in darkness/ ignorance) of God

As Paul considered himself a “light bearer” but…

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

After He FELL to the earth (how thou art FALLEN) the light he thought he had was nothing in comparison (he found himself persecuting the Lord he thought he was doing service for)

Pride is “the devils condemnation” and pride cometh BEFORE a FALL (Just as with Nebby) and God was ABLE to HUMBLE HIM and restore him just the same.

Same concept….

Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Just like here (the same)

Dan 4:27 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

He extols him on his ways (which are judgment) which was exactly what is shown in Paul

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

So the two stones even speak of those in Him (at least HID in Him) even as those which SAY they are JEWS but DO LIE (even as Paul spoke of MY LIE) and Jesus made them of the Synagogue OF SATAN (whose light is darkness) and it speaks OF THEIR FALL (blindness IN PART) and their RISING AGAIN (and both are IN Christ) in whom they are CONCLUDED even as He is to look upon as TWO STONE (one after the flesh) through which Christ after the flesh came) and one after the Spirit (the Jasper) which is the first foundation stone (the BUILDING OF the wall of it) and He that SAT and that to which HER light was LIKENED TO (which she had) which is the newest of stones (not after the flesh) but after the Spirit.

These things I see summed up in Him and shown throughout scripture in various ways after their similitudes.

Another follow-on reply:

Here’s morning stars (plural)

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Then here… compare

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts

They which draw others after themselves (same concept… he draweth a third of the stars out of heaven)

Then compare…

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.

You can tell why this person is one of favorite study partners. We take an almost identical approach to the scriptures in the way we study them. What a blessing to find someone else who “speaks the same language” (so to speak).

All Blessings in Christ, as always!

Christine

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